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Our current word limit for submissions is 1500 words. Do you think we should... 

62%
113 deviants said Up it! :noes: I write much longer works. (how much should we up it?)
31%
57 deviants said I think it's good like that. :heart:
6%
11 deviants said Other. (tell us!)
1%
1 deviant said :stare: lower it! (why?)

Devious Comments

:iconsame-side:
Same-side Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013   Writer
2 or 2.5k is probably good. Like somebody else commented, perhaps those submitting works of 1.5k+ should have to comment on works of comparable length. Or, my idea, they should have to comment on more than 1 work.
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:iconmadhat11d6:
MadHat11D6 Featured By Owner Feb 3, 2013   Writer
I'm sure others have expressed this opinion, but I think it would be fair if you either got rid of the word limit or capped it at around 5000 and implemented a rule that you much critique a close to equal amount of words in order to get in. My piece has 2500+ words? No problem! I'll critique another long piece or a couple of poems!
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:iconthepenvsthesword:
ThePenVsTheSword Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2013  Student Writer
I'd say at least 2500 words.
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:iconshadowedacolyte:
ShadowedAcolyte Featured By Owner Jan 31, 2013
2.5k is a good cap for basic short stories.
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:iconthemaideninblack:
TheMaidenInBlack Featured By Owner Jan 31, 2013
:thumbsup:
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:iconerrantcrow:
ErrantCrow Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2013  Professional Artist
I'm not certain how long my stuff is normally at this point but 1.5K is....woefully inadequate.

Two words: combined total.

When you submit for a contest or portfolio, you are sometimes given a choice. Submit 1 piece that is X number of words or multiple pieces that add up to X number of words.

In critique terms, a critique of a 3K story is worth 2 critiques of 1.5K stories. Make people add a word count. And assign points for different poem and story lengths (reviewing a haiku vs. Paradise Lost should be worth different points). I think there's a critique bias towards shorter stuff...but if I need to earn 3 points to get my long piece accepted, heck, I might be more likely to review the longer pieces since I have experience writing novellas and can offer better advice.

And that's my second point: no novella lengths. It just doesn't work...but a way to put these authors together for private crits would be awesome! Still, don't blast the roof off the word limit, just raise it. An 8-10K short story approaches oxymorondom.
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:iconthemaideninblack:
TheMaidenInBlack Featured By Owner Jan 30, 2013
I think a points system would be far too complicated to keep up. :shrug: but making people who submit longer works critique a longer work isn't as complicated and is basically the same concept, which is what I think we'll do.

Yeah, I don't want no neverending story either. :paranoid: we'll just see.
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:iconerrantcrow:
ErrantCrow Featured By Owner Jan 30, 2013  Professional Artist
Excellent. It doesn't need to be a strictly enforced code...but general guidelines on what you consider short vs. long would help there.
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:iconrebbiechan:
RebbieChan Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
I'd say up it, I write a lot of short stories and they are pretty much all above 1500 words, most are from 1500-4000 ish.
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:iconthemaideninblack:
TheMaidenInBlack Featured By Owner Jan 30, 2013
:thumbsup:
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:iconabrimaal:
Abrimaal Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
Who has time to count words? Better limit it to kilobytes of pure .txt file.
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:iconthemaideninblack:
TheMaidenInBlack Featured By Owner Jan 30, 2013
:paranoid: programs do it for you. I think there's even online word-counters or something like that.

Kylobites are far more "uncommon" than words, people can measure their works much easier using words than .kb . I mean, everyone knows roughly how many words are on a line, but how many kylobites it is?
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:iconabrimaal:
Abrimaal Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
You used 296 bytes in your reply, it took a few seconds to count :)
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:iconthemaideninblack:
TheMaidenInBlack Featured By Owner Mar 1, 2013
:shrug: for you who know about it. For anyone else, it's pretty weird and unknown, and regardless of how easy it is to learn, words are a much more common way to do the same thing. (:
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:iconthe-unavenged:
The-Unavenged Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013  Professional General Artist
I say up it! Everything I write varies from 2000-5000 words, which is why I haven't submitted anything to this group yet. I find in under 1500 words it can be a bit difficult t fully develop a story without having to write more than one story to fill in the blanks. (It's also a little hard when your a novelist to write that little. I like short stories just as good, but I'm a wordy person.)
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:iconthemaideninblack:
TheMaidenInBlack Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2013
Oh, that's interesting! So, if we upped it but made it mandatory that you critique a 1500+ word submission to have yours approved, would you be fine with that?
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:iconinterstellarshadow:
InterstellarShadow Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2013  Student General Artist
I like this plan!
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:iconthe-unavenged:
The-Unavenged Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2013  Professional General Artist
I would be 100% fine with that and it makes sense to do ti that way as well.
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:icondarkfire-lx:
darkfire-lx Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013
It should have a 2500 word limit, that's the limit the Toronto Star gives for it's short story contests, and its a good amount. Also, if a piece is much longer than 2500 words we can always visit the users site to read the rest.

By the way: EVERY ONE ENTER THE TORONTO STAR SHORT STORY CONTEST,
visit their website for more details.
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:iconthemaideninblack:
TheMaidenInBlack Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2013
2500 seems more reasonable to me, too.

:paranoid: okay...
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:icongreat-lord-dread:
Great-Lord-Dread Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Remove it entirely. 1500 words is a very tiny piece, it's fine for poetry but even most short stories are longer than that. I honestly don't see any merit in a word limit of any kind.
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:iconthemaideninblack:
TheMaidenInBlack Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2013
Also: [link] .
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:icongreat-lord-dread:
Great-Lord-Dread Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
You've basically just made my point. We have a very simple solution right here, folders organized based on word count, thus removing a need for a limit.
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:iconthemaideninblack:
TheMaidenInBlack Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2013
:shrug: "folders organized based on word count" is different than "no word limit at all" like you said at first.

And I still think we need a reasonable limit. I'm sure there are Groups aimed specifically to longer works, and I think ours should keep a limit of some sort (although of course, if the majority disagrees, this is indeed a democracy :XD:).
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:icongreat-lord-dread:
Great-Lord-Dread Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
I don`t see how it`s any different. In the end there is no peak for word count, works are simply organized by them.

I understand that there are several groups that don`t enforce a word count, in fact I know of very few that do. However this is one of the only successful groups that not only encourages but enforces the critique of other works in the gallery. People have said it many times before, it's hard for longer works to get attention on dA. So one of the only groups that can really ensure at least minimal feedback doesn't allow longer works? That seems counter productive to me.
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:iconthemaideninblack:
TheMaidenInBlack Featured By Owner Jan 30, 2013
It's different because no word limit at all just creates confusion.

I mean: without more restrictions to it, people will just submit superlong works and critique on short ones because it's easier. Folder division is already something different, and it COULD work, although it should be very well thought... not only because of the division itself, but all the admins moderating the submissions would have a lot more work to do.

They would have to, in order: check that the piece is submitted to the correct Prose or Poetry section, then check its word count (or line count, for poetry) and make sure the sub-folder is submitted to is correct, then check the critique was given to a piece of the same characteristics, then check that it overall follows the Group rules.
We can easily do it for a SINGLE folder containing longer works, but if we start making categories for everything I'm afraid we would get buried unless we get a lot more admins. So it needs a lot of thought.
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:iconsilverinkblot:
SilverInkblot Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
The word limit is there because it isn't fair to submit a 3000 word piece, but then offer a paragraph of critique to something with only 500 words. If you expect members to put forth the effort it takes to read and critique something longer, then you need to be putting forth that same effort yourself.
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:icongreat-lord-dread:
Great-Lord-Dread Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
But its fair to submit a 1500 word story and then critique a 50 word poem? That argument just doesn't make any sense to me because there are so many very simple ways around it. For instance, if you submit a piece, the piece you critique in regards can be no shorter than half the length of your submission?

I don't see this as a good enough reason to have such a stifling limit. 1500 words is nothing, it's tiny, for prose writers at least. Out of the 55+ pieces in my gallery I've got less than five that I can even submit here.
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:iconsilverinkblot:
SilverInkblot Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Personally, I'd prefer the "give what you get" guidelines to be far more strict, but there's not really any way to moderate that without excessive trouble. So we have to do what we can. A half-assed critique of a 50 word poem in exchange for a 3000 word story is not fair, but it's better than no critique at all. Which is why the solution we're proposing is to critique a long work yourself in order to be able to submit something long. A policy of that nature would uphold our give what you get philosophy and ensure that longer pieces get the critique they want.
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:iconthecrazymagnet:
thecrazymagnet Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013   Writer
I haven't wanted to submit a piece longer than 1500 yet, but there are definitely a few in my notebooks that would go over that limit. I'd be happy with anything from 2000 to 3000.
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:iconthemaideninblack:
TheMaidenInBlack Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2013
:thumbsup:
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:iconcassiecros13:
CassieCros13 Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013  Student Writer
Why a word limit? There are artists who write long, in depth stories that they can't fit into 1500 words. If a story hooks me, I'll read it no matter how long it is.
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:iconthemaideninblack:
TheMaidenInBlack Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2013
The word limit was there because of many reasons, originally because of the fact that we had so many submissions to our group that if all of them were so long, our members wouldn't read them. But afterwards we implemented the "give a critique in order to get your Lit submitted to us", so the reason why became rather that it wasn't fair to submit a 3000 word story and critique a six-word poem. Also, sadly people tend to avoid longer submissions when their objective is simply writing a critique to get their piece accepted into our gallery. :hmm: so yeah.

However, we thought of a folder for longer submissions that you can submit to if you critique a piece from the same folder.
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:iconmumume:
Mumume Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013
Yes- I think an increase would be good. I agree that the internet is not a very...pleasant reading medium for longer works, and people are severally less likely to read something lengthy that they see on DA, however, a good story with depth and meaning often has more to say then what 1500 can contain. Not to say good stories can't be written in less, just to say that a larger word count would offer a larger variety of works and styles within the group. 1500 words is a very limiting word count for people with a more 'wordy' style. Wordy and quality aren't opposites, wordy and 1500 word count limits are. lol

Secondly, when I write a story, unless its for a contest, I never write it with the thought of which DA group I'll be submitting it to. If there are many writers out there like myself, than they will be writing whatever stories they feel motivate them the most. They will write those stories and then try and share them with the world. Some of those impassioned stories will fit within 1500 words, and some will not. A slight increase will likely give you a greater population of inspired writers and works. Perhaps...

2500 would be good to start with I guess, if it doesn't work out you can always go back to 1500 words. And that would be my two cents. :shrug:
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:iconmumume:
Mumume Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013
Ugh...I hate it when my comments look longer than I wanted them too.
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:iconpinballwitch:
pinballwitch Featured By Owner Jan 30, 2013
I feel that way about my comments too, but also about my written dA submissions haha :D
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:iconwdnest:
wdnest Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013  Professional Writer
Have no limit - people should be able to write what they want, not limit or increase it.
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:iconthemaideninblack:
TheMaidenInBlack Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013
:XD: having no limit is a bit too much, in my opinion.

And people are always free to write what they want, but where they submit it to depends on what they wrote. :shrug: rules help society function smoothly, and our group is a sort of tiny society in itself, so yeah.

In any case, that is a possibility that I'm sure will be discussed with the other admins. (: thank you for the input!
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:iconraspil:
raspil Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013   Writer
sometimes it's difficult to get in a story what needs to be in there; enough time to care about a character and actions and dialogue without it feeling rushed. at my group, i generally have a max count at between 2000-3000. it's theoretically enough to make a well-fleshed out story without it feeling like it's "too much to read sitting at the computer".

/no comment on poetry
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:iconthemaideninblack:
TheMaidenInBlack Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013
I agree with you on that. We've always thought a work longer than 1500 words would be too long for our members to read, but at the same time, your logic makes a lot of sense.
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:iconunenglishable:
unenglishable Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013
Perhaps a change in prose only?

With modern style, I don't think you'll need more than 1,500 words to write a single poem.
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:iconraspil:
raspil Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013   Writer
i guess i wasn't clear enough with what i thought was clear enough. sorry
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:iconthemaideninblack:
TheMaidenInBlack Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013
We've been discussing this in the Back Room for a while now. :D we were thinking of upping it, creating a folder specifically for works longer than 1500 words and adding the rule that deviants wanting to submit there have to critique on a piece in that same folder. It's a sort of "what you give is what you get" logic, and we all find it pretty fair.

Thoughts?
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:iconpinballwitch:
pinballwitch Featured By Owner Jan 30, 2013
Yes please.
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:iconactsofart:
ActsofArt Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
that sounds fair to me. I don't really write out long stories so you may want to get the opinion of someone whod does, but if they want to submit a long worded story and expect people to read it then they shouldn't have any objection to reading a story of the same or similar word count.
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:iconthemaideninblack:
TheMaidenInBlack Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013
Exactly! That's how we feel about it, too. I'm glad people seem to agree with it. (:
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:iconmiserabel:
miserabel Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
I voted it's good like that, but the "what you give is what you get" logic seems pretty sound to me! If you up the limit I think this is the best way to go about it :happybounce:
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:iconthemaideninblack:
TheMaidenInBlack Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013
(: I'm glad you think so.
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:iconcamelopardalisinblue:
camelopardalisinblue Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I voted other because I think... this. :p
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:iconthemaideninblack:
TheMaidenInBlack Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013
:giggle: yay!
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